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Doctor Strange      There are a number of people Doctor Stephen Strange would have as guests in his Sanctum Sanctorum. Lezard Valeth is not one of them, owing to the rather poor first impression the sorcerer made upon him. He has decided to make a temporary abode in the region of Winter. Its demigod is missing, and therefore not present to be called upon or bargained with by either party.

     An hour prior to the meeting, the place is constructed. With rays of ice, cones of cold, packed-in snow, and a healthy dose of temporal acceleration, an icy manor is constructed. High, sharp spires, vaulted windows which would likely be stained glass had they any color to them, and a facade of large hewn bricks create a distinctly Gothic appearance. On the inside, hovering blue motes of light provide illumination where the high rising windows cannot.

     Precisely upon the expected hour of Lezard's arrival, Strange hovers down the grand staircase of this icy retreat, the Cloak of Levitation billowing out behind him. The decor appears to have been brought in from somewhere else, but has all been selected to match the Gothic aesthetic. A long rug spreads out from the top of the staircase to the entryway.

     "Lezard Valeth, Sorcerer of Midgard," says Strange as his feet touch the ground. He gestures with his left hand--a heavily scarred, slightly trembling thing--towards an open doorway leading into another room. Some would say that he could have just built one room and made that the room they meet in, but all magicians must flex when meeting a rival. "You get here all right? Traffic in the Tapestry's killer this time of year."
Lezard Valeth Lezard makes a poor impression on a lot of people. He rarely hides his nature, except in very specific circumstances. He can show restraint, but much of his demeanor depends on exactly who and what he's dealing with.

Few things agitate Lezard like a 'hero'. Coming from a land called Midgard, one might wonder why, as the Norse traditions exemplified heroism... Of a sort.

Regardless, Lezard would have been wary of entering another mage's sanctum. He knows well the kind of advantages one gets on their 'home turf'. The neutral location of Winter is suitable. Just outside the entrance to the manor, a circle draws itself, almost in response to the words Strange speaks. After several moments, the circle completes, and Lezard fades into view, his tattered, travel-worn cape flaring behind him dramatically in the chill air.

Politely, he nods, and then steps inside. "Doctor Strange, Sorceror Supreme." He's acknwoledging the title. A good sign, perhaps? Who knows. His eyus flick back and forth, looking over the constructed abode with a measuring gaze. "My compliments to your architectural skill. Not all practicioners are able to make something worth looking at as well as residing within."

He watches Strange for a moment, considering his gesture and those scarred hands in particular as he nods, turning to the indicated area and accapting the invitation into another romm of the ice manor. "The trek was not difficult." Lezard says with a shrug. "I've long ago determined efficient paths through the Multiverse, and the rearrangement of it didn't change the things that mattered."
Doctor Strange      Strange inclines his head politely when he's greeted, smiling slightly when Lezard offers his compliment. The room in question is entered into with the doctor following behind at a respectful distance. Lezard will find it to be a study, with tall, deep red leather chairs for each sorcerer. A fireplace somehow burns white fire and warms the room without melting the entire place--some trick of Strange's, to be sure. Strange takes a seat in whichever one Lezard doesn't. Or the nearest one, if he's the suspicious type.

     A small, round table within reach of both chairs bears a steaming teapot and a cup for each of them. Strange pours. It's a dark tea, probably something English. "Would've gone for chai, but not everybody likes that." He lifts his cup, raises it briefly to Lezard, and takes a measured sip. "So."

     "Let's talk. Why Jeanne? Or... guess I should ask, why /that/ Jeanne?" He raises his brow, peering at Lezard over the rim of his cup. "You hear about a lady setting a building on fire with..." The doctor pauses. A guy who by his own admission finds 'heroes' stupid probably won't care for the term 'innocent.' "Uninvolved people inside... destroying priceless historical artifacts... attracting the cops... among others..." He gestures with his free hand to himself and offers a slight frown of amusement.

     "And your idea is to recruit her? Seems like a risky investment, to me. A big investment, too, if you're using your own... mana, prana, whatever you wanna call it." Sip. "Why not get yourself a... King Arthur, a..." He gestures vaguely with his free hand. "Laozi? An Enrico Dandolo, if you're feeling scheme-y. Someone who's not gonna make a mess on your doorstep?"
Lezard Valeth Lezard has no reason to suspect treachery from Strange at this point. He is a 'hero', to be sure, but by his own arguments he seems to be a differnt cut than the usual he deals with. Thus it is that he smiles at the fireplace trick and settles into the closer chair, resting his arms on it and steepling his fingers before himself as he considers the situation and the man before him. The firelight gleams off of his glasses as he watches the tea be poured. He takes up a cup, but he /does/ let Strange sip first. Not that he believes that it would mean anything involving his safety, but because there are /some/ traditions that the Sorceror holds to. 'see, I have partaken of it, it is safe'. The Rules of Hospitality are alive and well.

The Sorceror of Midgard sips at the tea, savoring the brew for several moments while Strange makes his opening case. "Mmmm." He hums, and gestures with a hand towards Strange. "Better to ask why /not/ that Jeanne? I am as capable of doing my research as anyone else. A hero. a true living saint that had experienced the ultimate betrayal. Now returned, consumed with vengeance and prepared to obliterate everything she stood to protect in life. Can you /not/ see the fantastic irony, the metaphysical inversion that must be in place?"

He shrugs lightly at the mention of 'uninvolved people'. "Yes, she had made quite the mess, indeed. I can't disagree that it was significant enough that even /I/ heard of it despite being completely uninvolved..."

There is a little chuckle, then, at the proposal. "Do you think someone such as King Arthur would answer my call? Lao Zi would be quite fascinating, but I would hardly wish to spend my power to simply discuss philosophy... And Dandolo? May as well call up Machiavelli. No, they are not useful to me, much for the reasons that this... Avenger... /would/ be useful to me. And I to her. Besides, the last time I attempted a summoning, I acquired Elizabeth Bathory instead of Count Dracul. It was not what I would call... optimal. Such summonings are rarely exact."

He takes another drink of tea, kicking one leg up over the other as he adopts a more relaxed, casual position. "The Avenger has a colossal amount of power. I can tell that much immediately. Her focus is compatible with mine. You should be encouraging me to offer her my services, not trying to convince me to leave her be. I can give her focus. I will provide her my knowledge and direction, and she will provide me with her powers of destruction and vengeance. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement and it is far less harmful to your... 'uninvolved people' than were I to leave her go. Yes, yes, you could run her down like the hounds you are and eventually destroy her, but the collateral damage could be much greater."
Doctor Strange      The doctor dryly regards Lezard with curiously raised brows. Sure, he sees the irony, his look says--but it conveys also a certain doubt. He doesn't seem to believe that's the only reason. Sure enough, Lezard explains, in a roundabout way, his true motive: power.

     "Assuming you could reason with her, and I think you could, she'd be more focused, yeah." Sip. "Directed," he adds, gesturing to lezard with his cup. "But, uh... directed towards what? Towards who?" Strange squints. "Whom? Who? I dunno." He shakes his head. "My point is, you've been around the block. Who or what is out there that needs destruction and vengeance that only an Avenger can give you? That you can't, uh... destroy and avenge yourself?"
Lezard Valeth Lezard seems more than happy to explain the points of his Evil Plan Of Evil. Some things don't change, even in other universes. "Consider Avenger. Think about her path. She wants vengeance upon anyone and anything that has wronged her. One she has sated herself on those people she feels are responsible, where do you think she is going to turn her attention?"

There is a gleam again in those glasses as Lezard takes a sip of tea, letting Doctor Strange come to a conclusion before he provides his own. "Why stop at mere people, when she can transgress and work to cast down the very God that allowed her to suffer and perish for the sake of pointless, weak people? I am very interested in seeing if she is capable of performing such a task... And I am willing to offer her my support in accomplishing it. And if her God isn't enough, well..." Again, he spreads his hands nonchalantly. "I could perhaps suggest a few others to try one's blade on."
Doctor Strange      Strange scoffs. "You're kidding, right? Assuming that's even possible, you have no idea what the consequences would be. You'd be potentially throwing entire worlds into chaos just for... what?" He inclines his head questioningly at Lezard. "A little fun? C'mon," says the Earth sorcerer with an incredulous expression. "A smart guy like you's gotta hate all the loose ends that'd make."

     "Besides. We both know she thinks humanity itself is to blame. Another big, big, biiiig assumption here--but even if she did kill all the people she wanted to, it'd take years. Years!" He chuckles dryly, shaking his head in disbelief. "I mean, there'd be... two or three new world popping up for every one the two of you managed to snuff out--and we can both agree that's pretty, uh, optimistic given all the resistance you two would face." This isn't a guy who responds well to moral arguments--so he sticks to the rational.

     "...and, speaking of loose ends, how many 'you killed my parents' backstories is that?" He raises his eyebrows, frowning at Lezard. "Thousands? Millions?" He clicks his tongue. "Mess-sy."

     "But. Entertain me here. Ah, what's the endgame? Best possible scenario for you two. She kills everyone and every god. It's just you and her left. Do you... break out the box set of Seinfeld and crack open a couple beers?"
Lezard Valeth Lezard tilts his head, listening to Strange's response. At first, he scowls, but the scowl dies down as Strange continues to use rational arguments against his general plan. He hums for a moment, his scowl leveling out. "If it's so bad that the world would have no God, I have some ideas on how to resolve it."

He leans in and grins a bit. "How about I just ensure /she/ becomes God instead? Then she can handle the problem /much/ more efficiently. Whatever power one being can have, another can. All one needs are the proper conditions." He laughs. "You know, talking with you has certainly been enlightening. That is a /wonderful/ idea. Then there won't be any loose ends, the Avenger can simply resolve them in her own chosen way. Wouldn't that be her right as the new deity of her world?" The last is said with almost /dripping/ sarcasm.

He does, however, flump back into his chair, more animated at this point now that certain topics seem to have come to the fore. "If she wants to concern herself with the people of other worlds after that, she'd hardly need /my/ help to do it, and having her in my debt will come in handy for my own plans."

There's a pause, and he waves offhandedly. "The mistake is not killing the child. Keep a few around, though. Would-be heroes are a valuable resource. As to endgame... Well, I solve her problem, and she helps me solve mine. Once she's installed and can show people the folly of their faith, she'll be more than capable of helping me in my own efforts."
Doctor Strange      Strange finishes his cup and sets it down upon its ornate saucer. Smacking his lips, he offers a thought. "Well, I was never religious, but if you wanna talk irony, I'm sure there's some to be found in a lady like her becoming God after condemning him." He lets both trembling hands rest in his lap, crossing his legs. "She'd be able to do whatever she wanted, within her world." He continues, listing events like a reminder for groceries, nodding along with each. "Able to figure out being God isn't as easy as she thought it'd be, able to hear those 'mere people' condemning her, able to kill them or spurn them to satisfy that vengeful streak, and in so doing, become exactly what she hates. Be a pretty good play, come to think of it. Or, it would be, if it hadn't been done to death already." He levels a flat look at Lezard, his expression communicating his thoughts on that 'wonderful' idea pretty clearly.

     "But let's not talk about that. Let's talk about you, Lezard. Can I call you Lezard?" Another inquisitive tilt of the head. Strange pours himself another cup of tea. "What /are/ your plans, exactly?"
Lezard Valeth Lezard simply shrugs. "Everyone's a critic." He replies idly. "I am sure she'll enjoy it for a while, then either make something of it or turn her world into a charred husk. What she does with it isn't my problem. It's not really /your/ problem either, Sorceror Supreme. She's not threatening your world now, is she? Besides, I could hardly offer her the chance if she would refuse it. I haven't even talked to her yet. I am making plans based on what I have observed of her temperment. You may be in luck. She might just reject me entirely... Which means you'll get to hunt her down and slay her, a typically ignoble end of those who refuse to at least find /some/ allies."

Talking about Lezard seems to be a perfectly acceptable idea. The Sorceror of Midgard drains his teacup, and then freshens himself up once more. "Feel free to do so. My name is more than enough for me." The 'for now' is practically palpable. "My plans? I've told you the name of my world. You should know enough to understand what my problem is with it. Surely it can't be entirely unique." Is he not bring so forward on purpose? Or is he trying to test the Sorceror Supreme? Lezard continues to watch him intently, perhaps looking for something unspoken.
Doctor Strange      "It's not my problem as Sorcerer Supreme, no," admits Strange. "But sitting on my hands while someone goes on a murder spree I'm perfectly capable of stopping makes me complicit. Besides." He takes a sip. "I don't wanna kill her. Not if I can avoid it. Killing's so... uncreative." He frowns in distaste. "Why would I kill her when I could heal her--or find someone who could? Let her live her own life, as her own person, not some... caricature of a lady who's been dead for hundreds of years."

     "I mean, for somebody who wants to prevent Ragnarok, which, I presume /is/ what you want, you're preeetty kill happy yourself." He pauses. "Is that the idea? Find who or whatever causes it in your world and just..." He makes a guttural noise, dragging his index finger across his throat. "That why you want Avenger on your side?" Strange laughs--but it's not an amused laugh. It's bitter and cynical.

     "A nuclear option? Kick the door down, kill everyone, hope it's fixed? God... were you in the Union or something?"
Lezard Valeth "Ah, but /are/ you capable of stopping it? I suppose that doesn't really matter though, you'll try anyway, won't you?" Lezard asks archly. "What makes the people of this world more important than those of any of a million, million, million other worlds you could be saving? No, Doctor, it is not about 'complicity'. It is about you getting involved because you /want/ to."

Then he smiles. "But that's all right. Because that's what it comes down to in the end, isn't it? You do it because you /want/ to. The moralizing doesn't really offer you anything but a sop to your conscience. That you believe you're 'doing the right thing'. I have long seen the evils that can be wrought by 'doing the right thing'."

The idea of a caricature draws another short, cynical laugh from Lezard. "Tell that to all of the other Heroic Spirits, that they are simply caricatures of their selves, and see how far you get. Changing her in that way would change who she is. She would no longer be the Avenger. she would be someone... /something/ entirely different. And regardless, you have no guarantee that she wouldn't want to continue murdering her problems away regardless."

The conversation turns back to Lezard himself, and he grins widely. "You're close! So very close, Sorceror Supreme. I can't blame you for not quite hitting the mark though, I hadn't given you enough information to work with. You do, however, have my gratitude that you /are/ in fact paying attention."

There's a pause as he leans back in the chair once more. "No, I don't want to prevent Raknarok at all." He takes a long sip of his tea, then smiles.

"No. I want to bring forth the Twilight of the Gods with my own hands and cast down the All-Father with my own two hands. Wipe these wretched deities from the world and install something better in its place, creating a new order."

He gestures. "/My/ order. One that will shatter the wheel of fate itself and allow a new, greater destiny to take its place. One not ruled by the sordid wiles of a coward running from his death, but a true man of vision and knowledge."

The last words, of him being in the Union, get a loud laugh from Lezard, a cutting, cynical, near manical cackle. When it ends, he wipes a tear from his eye, and he looks back to the Doctor. "You are /exceedingly/ funny, Doctor Strange. It would be truly a loss to see you gone. Do consider leaving this one be. There is much we could potentially do. You have power and knowledge of your own. You could accomplish a great deal if you would be willing to take a better, more efficient path. Your world could be protected even more securely. I could even be convinced to assist."
Doctor Strange      When Lezard talks about having seen good intentions and their potential ills, Strange nods. "So have I," says the doctor. "Which is why I joined the Paladins. Because I accept that sometimes, I'll need help. I accept that good intentions have to be balanced with things like oversight and accountability. That my way isn't the only way." He stirs his tea, then takes a sip.

     "And that's why I invited you here today--to hear you out. To, ah, hear /your/ way." Strange uncrosses his legs, leaning forward in his seat. He spreads his hands briefly. "Gotta admit, I don't know what I was expecting, but... 'kill the gods and start Ragnarok myself' wasn't it. But you know, if it leaves a better world behind, if you account for whatever upheaval it's gonna cause, it's not the /worst/ thing I've ever heard."

     "So let's talk details. What's /your/ order? What's /your/ destiny? How do your vision and knowledge make Midgard better? Do you want Avenger's help because you don't trust the little people to see how much better life would be with you in Odin's place? Is she insurance against them?"
Lezard Valeth "I too have long understood the need for allies. There are simply too many meddling heroes in the multiverse to stand alone, something the Avenger is going to learn quickly, if she has not already. There is a reason why I am a part of the Concord." A pause. "Well, not immediately. The group I became a part of ended up being bought out. So much the better, the Concord was clearly superior." He shrugs at that. "Regardless, you can do as you like. I certainly won't stop you unless you insist on becoming a problem. I have far too many irons in the fire to go chasing off after every little thing."

Lezard continues to relax, sitting back with his hands clasped in his lap at this point. He seems to feel like he's doing just fine, despite him doing all the talking and Strange doing all the listening. "Ah, but it /will/ be my problem when it happens. won't it? If I want to preserve the world, it would fall to me to clean up the mess." Lezard smiles faintly. "I do not require Avenger's help. Her help will make things easier, to be sure, but I do not require her protection or power for my plans. I simply would be a fool to pass up the opportunity to make things easier. I will create a world of light and glory. A world free of the shackles of fate. When I rule as All-Father with the Valkyrie at my side, we will not be governed by loathsome prophecy or ancient myths of creation and destruction, but by magic, and science, and knowledge."

Again, the flame gleams from the fireplace, reflecting off of his glasses as he lowers his gaze slightly. "And they will bow to me. Worship me. Honor my name... Lezard Valeth!"
Doctor Strange      The Sorcerer Supreme listens to Lezard's explanation, nodding along. His nods get slower and slower the further Lezard gets into it. By the time he reaches the 'bow to me, worship me' bit, Strange's hand is upon his chin, with one final, highly incredulous nod. "Uh... /huh./" His emerald eyes flick briefly upward.

     "So--I follow, for the most part. There's a... rabbit hole we could go down about 'fate' that'd take waaay more time than either of us has today, but I guess we could always have that conversation some other time." He finishes his second cup and sets it aside, waving a hand dismissively. "Now, naturally, as a god, you're gonna have people worshipping you, or you're not gonna be one for very long." He pauses. "At least, that's the way I see it work most often." The sorcerer shrugs.

     "Even though you're gonna /cause/ Ragnarok, cleaning up the mess and taking care of the place afterwards'll turn your... followers to your side. The whole 'no fate' thing, that probably will, too. People don't like thinking they don't have a choice. Although, fair warning, there /is/ usually a reason fate exists." He holds up both hands in a casually defensive fashion. "But like I said, rabbit hole."

     "The magic, science, and knowledge thing, that'll get you some approval, too, but it's nothing if people don't have free will. Sure, you can get rid of fate, and say that's free will." Strange lets his arms fall upon the armrests of his chair, leaning back. "But what happens when they get so advanced they decide they don't need you anymore? Or when they otherwise act in a way you don't want them to? Do you hold back and let them make their own mistakes, or do you micromanage, prevent, or punish?" Lezard seems like the punish sort, to him. He shrugs. "Just questions you should be asking yourself now so you're prepared later."

     "Now, whether or not you get it, and how long it takes you, depends on how much interference you get. Hence..." The doctor lifts a finger, gesturing vaguely to their current surroundings. Strange asked for Lezard's presence to talk him down from pursuing Avenger, while Lezard came to try and prevent interference in his plans. The Earth sorcerer gives his Midgardian guest (a distinction that would have seemed nonsensical but two scant years ago) a discerning look, his emerald eyes peering meaningfully at Lezard. Or perhaps through him.

     "Earlier, you said you'd be thorough enough to kill a kid, if it meant preventing him from coming back to seek revenge. It's possible you were just arguing a hypothetical there. So I'll be direct. Would you kill kids to sit in Odin's throne? Would you kill hundreds? Thousands? Would you kill people who wouldn't or couldn't directly threaten you? Would you kill people who weren't involved?"
Lezard Valeth Lezard listens attentively as Strange replies. "You do bring up a large number of salient points. I assure you that I will have them all accounted for." Lezard replies. "I appreciate your concern and advice. I rarely get such a response from one who considers themselves on the side of 'good'. But then, you are simply working to prevent greater suffering, are you not?"

The mention of fate causes another angry flash in his eyes, but he doesn't seem to take it out on Strange. Far from it, he seems irritated as something /else/. "Thrice-damned weavers. Do you understand what it is like to understand you are caught up in an endless cycle of stasis, to live and die over and over until you are cast into Niflheim or chosen by the gods to battle in their petty war with the Giants?" Lezard scowls. "Indeed, I work to provide a choice where there was none before. I benefit, of course, but one can hardly expect one to work for free, can they? Regardless, the people will advance. The worthy might even rival me... If I stayed still. I intend to do no such thing. What does not grow, falls into decay. Gods in their essence are folly. I must not allow myself to become mired in it even when I assume the place. To move beyond the gods themselves... That would prove to be a truly great work, would it not?"

But the question comes. How far would he go? Lezard shakes his head. "I will do what I must. I have chosen this course, to shy away from it over something like this would be cowardice. Do you think I am not already a blasphemer? Someone who sets themselves against the gods can do no less. I do not concern myself with the matters of your world, Sorceror Supreme. Do not concern yourself with mine, and it will be to our mutual benefit. I ask nothing from you besides you focusing on what will be better and easier for you and your charge."
Doctor Strange      Doctor Strange nods, then rises from his seat. With a flick of his hand, it disappears, though Lezard's remains. All through the glacial manor, Lezard can feel subtle magical disturbances. The doctor's packing up. "True good and true evil are things that we rarely ever see. Because of that, it's easy for us to point at someone and say, 'that guy's evil.' I don't think you're evil any more than I think I'm good. I'm not above reproach. I'm just trying to prevent greater suffering, like you said."

     "Your goals are admirable," says Strange, carving a hole into reality with an outstretched hand. A ring of burning sparks frames an image of a far-off city in the Tapestry, looking somewhat futuristic, with flying cars and an abundance of neon lights in the darkness. "I think you're pursuing them because you want less suffering. Also admirable." His expression hardens. "It's your methods that concern me, Lezard. Not as Sorcerer Supreme, but as a Paladin, and as someone who doesn't believe there's such a thing as a 'mere' person."

     The minor magical disturbances stop, with the disappearance of the tea set. It means all that remains is Lezard's chair. "You've been an excellent guest. One I'd be glad to entertain again. But if your goals put innocent lives in danger, I'll be there to protect them. Whether you choose to define that as interference is up to you." Strange steps through the portal. It closes behind him.